[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the interior design business. My name is Geoff Hayward and I'm here with my co host, Susie Rumbold, creative director of Tasuto Interiors and a past president of the British Institute of Interior Design, to talk lighting. We're here in the wonderful showroom setting of Simpsons at the Design Centre, Chelsea Harbour.
So Susie, what would you like to say?
[00:00:22] Speaker B: Today we will be talking lighting from first fix to finish scheme.
Interior designers know that lighting is crucial to the success of every project.
Bad lighting can be simultaneously gloomy and glary, deadening colors and flattening textures, while good lighting can make even basic decorative schemes sing. But lighting is also highly complex and technical minefield that designers must somehow learn to navigate.
So how should interior designers go about managing this critical design element?
How early in the project cycle should lighting be considered? And what lighting knowledge and tools do designers need to succeed at every project stage? Welcome to the interior design business.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: Thank you so much. Now we are joined by Lee Lovett, founder and managing director of Soho Lighting.
[00:01:18] Speaker C: Hello.
[00:01:18] Speaker A: And award winning interior designer Henrietta Von Stockhausen, founder and creative director of VSP Interiors. Welcome both to the show.
[00:01:25] Speaker B: Thank you.
But before we begin, I was hoping.
[00:01:28] Speaker D: That you could both give us just.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: A brief introduction to yourselves and your businesses.
Henrietta, do you want to go first?
[00:01:35] Speaker D: Yeah, sure. Henrietta von Stockhausen.
My company is called VSP Interiors.
We work on sort of mainly residential projects, big country houses all over the world. Really.
So, and how long since you set up your practice? So I set my practice up in 2000. Oh. So really 25 years.
[00:01:59] Speaker B: Congratulations. That's a milestone. Amazing.
[00:02:01] Speaker D: It's a rather long time. It did go very quickly, I have.
[00:02:04] Speaker B: To say, after being 12 when you started. Can I just say that's my joke, Lee.
[00:02:11] Speaker C: I was not 12 when we started, so I really love it. Soho lighting. And we also have an electrical engineering brand called Enken that sits behind all of of the lighting that we do. And we essentially started the company because we had a renovation project that went horribly wrong and then it was in Soho, hence the name. And then at the end of this terrible money losing project, the dimmers didn't work. And so that is why we started the company. And we had a super bright electrician who was 23 called Joshi, he's now a technical director and he said I know exactly why they don't work and I can fix it. And I'm sure we'll talk more about why that sometimes happens with dimming, but that's essentially our company.
[00:02:54] Speaker D: Thank you.
[00:02:55] Speaker A: Fantastic. So Henrietta, at what stage of a project. Should the designer consider lighting and should designers be discussing lighting with their clients when taking the initial brief?
[00:03:06] Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely, definitely. It's very, very important part of interior design.
You know, I think a.
I think a home that isn't well lit is worse.
Or let's say an ugly or whatever, a house that hasn't been done very well. If the lighting is right, it's better than an amazing super duper designed house. And the lighting is flat and off. So it's very, very important element, I think.
[00:03:36] Speaker A: So you're talking lighting at that very first stage.
[00:03:39] Speaker D: We do. We often work together with lighting specialists. So we, you know, it depends what the size of the project is and how many people are involved and so on. But if no one else is involved, then I will do it. But right from the beginning and I will speak to the client about it because I feel really strongly about getting it right. Especially in sort of historic houses and listed buildings. You know, it's a tricky thing and you need to kind of tackle that straight on. Yeah.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: And presumably, Lee, you get approached sometimes when it's too late and you wish you'd been called in earlier often.
[00:04:17] Speaker C: And I'm sure we've all had projects or houses that we've done that with as well, you know, or you've taken a house and then you want to change its configuration and you have to do the lighting. So yeah, it becomes very tricky. There are certain things that you can do when you do retrofit lighting and it hasn't been done from architectural plans, but it makes it difficult. Definitely. Okay.
[00:04:39] Speaker B: And so on that basis then should, should the lighting be considered as part of the initial project space planning? I mean, Leigh, do you want to tackle that one?
[00:04:45] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely, I think. Well, Henrietta obviously will work with clients to understand how they firstly use space, which is the most important thing.
[00:04:56] Speaker B: Furniture layouts and so on.
[00:04:57] Speaker D: Furniture layouts and yeah, how they travel through spaces, what they're mainly used for. I mean, all sorts of things come into that brief, I guess, that are important.
[00:05:06] Speaker C: Exactly. And then, and then if we're working with a building that's been built from scratch or renovated, taking all the way back, we would work from architectural plans to then lay over a lighting plan with the interior designer to make sure that we're lighting the spaces in the way that, that it's going to be used and that all of the first fix, what we call the first fixings, are in the right place and you've got enough sockets and the pendants are coming through the Wires are flexible to come through the ceiling wherever you need them, or the walls. So, yeah, essentially we'd work off of those plans. Harry, do you ever find the reverse.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: That, you know, normally, I guess, the. The furniture positions are going to be dictating where you put the lights and how the rooms are going to be used.
[00:05:52] Speaker C: Are there ever any situations where actually.
[00:05:53] Speaker B: The building dictates the lighting position rather than the use?
[00:05:58] Speaker D: I mean, not very often, I would say. I mean, or more often with natural light rather than lighting that you put in. I think natural light is unbelievably important in terms of where and how you place your, you know, your furniture and your interiors and which time of the day you spend in the room and where you sit and all of that is obviously very important. But, you know, of course, there are some sort of historic rooms where you can't touch anything. And so therefore, you know, the furniture will have to stay or be where it's, you know, where it. Where the lighting is.
You know, if you have a huge chandelier or if you, you know, but. But it's quite rare.
I would say that that is the other way around, that the lighting dictates the furniture.
Especially with what's going on these days. Your lighting has become so much more flexible and there's so many little things to have light without even seeing the source of the light, which creates real depth and shadows. And so you have a lot more flexibility these days, which is great.
[00:07:04] Speaker A: And one thing that intrigues me is how difficult lighting is to describe with words. When it's, here we are doing it on the right hand, here we are, but it needs to be experienced. So how do you communicate what you're trying to achieve to your client?
[00:07:19] Speaker D: Well, I mean, there is good images that you can show to illustrate what you mean. But what I try and explain always is that actually the best sort of light is the light that you don't see, and it just makes you feel good.
And there's sort of three, I guess, very basic elements to it. You need to have three light sources at least.
So, you know, and they will need to be on different circuits always. And they need to be all dimmable. So that's the bottom line.
And then with that, you can create your different moods. But to illustrate that for clients is sometimes quite difficult. But if I ask them and say, look, where's your favorite restaurant?
Have you thought about the lighting there? You know, is it. Do you see it? How. What do you like about it, or your hotel or whatever. So then you Know, I can explain on that sort of example what is good about good about it and how it's been used. And mainly they will understand that actually you don't need light that you see like too many spotlights and it doesn't, you know, but it is that sort of glow and the shadows and the depths of light that makes a room interesting and, you know, makes you as a person glow and feel comfortable and confident. And that's what really the essence of good lighting is. And so I try and illustrate it by images. And if we're working with a lighting consultant, they are very, very good at illustrating that. They've got a huge portfolio of, you know, things that make, you know, explain.
[00:08:50] Speaker C: What we try and lighting room as well, Henry, that clients can go in.
[00:08:54] Speaker D: You can go in, so you can send clients in and say, have a look, you know, it's, it's quite a lot more contemporary, you know, compared to what I do. But it's still very useful to understand that lighting really has evolved and you have so many more options these days.
[00:09:11] Speaker A: What intrigues me about that is you're connecting lighting with almost a feeling in the client. Is that something you can relate to, Lee?
[00:09:17] Speaker C: Oh, completely, yes. I mean, it sets the mood, doesn't it? It sets the ambiance. And you can switch from working with, doing task lighting that's very clear and crisp and great clarity to then really warm, cozy atmospheres. And I think what you say is absolutely right, Henriota. It absolutely dictates the mood and the feeling in the house.
[00:09:40] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:09:40] Speaker C: And there's so many ways to create that.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: So when you start on a building in litter, how would you go about analyzing a site to work out what lighting actually will be needed?
[00:09:52] Speaker D: Well, I guess the most important thing is firstly you need to work out how the rooms are used, how the people that live in them, you know, walk, walk in them. Is it a morning room, is it an afternoon room, is it for breakfast? Or you know, bathrooms, you know, so, so how are the rooms used by everyone in the house, not just by a couple, you know, so, so that would be the first thing I look at. Then I'll look at obviously layouts and in particular natural light and architecture.
So lighting requirements are very different if you've got huge floor to ceiling windows or if you've got a huge dome, you know, in your entrance hall.
It just really depends what your natural light does. And I think, I don't often, I don't want to disturb what the natural light does with shadows and how it plays Because I think that's unbelievably important in rooms and in an interior. So you have to tread quite lightly and be careful and try and work around that right at the beginning. So that's how I would approach it. And then also, I think it depends how you. How that interior will evolve, I. E. Is it going to be very colorful or is it going to be very calm? You know, what.
How will. What will the mood be in that space?
And then you sort of do your lighting accordingly, I think. And obviously, bathrooms are different things because you do need to make sure that you've got task lighting as well as, you know, you magnifying mirror and, you know, all sorts of different things. But even a bathroom, I think, needs to have three, two or three levels of light. So, you know. Yes. You might have your spots or your washes. Yes. But I think you also need pretty lights. You need your wall lights and, you know, with lovely soft shades through which the light kind of becomes softened. And then often I put picture lights and big portraits and things. Obviously that goes with the territory of what interiors we do. But I think I try and follow that through even in kitchens and bathrooms, because it just creates just that much more comfortable feel to a room. So I don't know if you feel the same.
[00:12:06] Speaker B: And, Leigh, what about things like sight lines through the building? Do you have any kind of trips for considering and mapping those in the planning process?
[00:12:13] Speaker C: I think it's so important, and I think when you've got a line of sight, it might be through a corridor into another room. And I think you can consider whether there's any architectural details in that line of sight that you might want to catch your eye and bring attention to. And that's where architectural lighting comes in so beautifully. It's like you said, Henietta, that sometimes the most effective lighting is not the decorative shadow. Yeah. It's shadows. It's almost like when you contour your face and not that I actually know how to do that, but if I did, I would. But it's like a contouring of a space and the shadow and the spaces between the light source becomes so important. It becomes really theatrical and dramatic, like.
[00:12:57] Speaker D: Negative space in a painting as well.
It's a real art. Yeah. But sometimes even in the garden, I mean, I think sort of sight lines, as you say, really, really important to, you know. Yes, you do your lighting in your house, but don't forget the outside, because it can be such a. Such an important vista at the end of a corridor and you see Out. And then that tree, you know, lovely statue, amazing tree or statue is lit indirectly and it just glows in the distance. And it really, it. It plays with distances and shadows again. And I think it's really, really an important tool to not forget.
[00:13:34] Speaker A: And in terms of architectural features, any advice for designers on how to.
[00:13:38] Speaker D: How to light architectural features indirectly, if you can? It's not always easy, but as I said, there's so many great new things. Or even there's like some companies have these tiny, tiny lights which can swivel all the way around, so you can almost hide them in a bookshelf or in a. On top of a pillow or, you know, or in a cornice. And you won't see them because they're literally the size of my thumb and they're very, very strong. So they just. They create a glow. So if you can manage to highlight the bits that you need to highlight indirectly, I think that is the best advice I would give. And keep in mind the shadows and that not everything needs to be lit because if you light everything, it becomes incredibly flat and basically you might as well not bother.
[00:14:32] Speaker C: Yeah, it really does. And I think there are certain tricks. So, for example, if you have a recess and you really need sort of like either an ingress or a deep baffle, so it doesn't glare like you say, Henrietta, to have it tiltable.
If you've got sort of like a grazing light, which is a light that's sort of, say, down a wall and it's. It's shot down parallel to it, you'll pick up all that lovely texture. Say if you've got like a brick wall or something with texture. And then if you go wider, it sort of more flattens it, but it's, It's. It's a great wash of light. So there's lots of tricks. And if you, if you backlight, you can create silhouettes.
So, you know, there's so many tricks that you can use.
[00:15:16] Speaker D: It's nothing more magical, is there, than a pin spot on a vase of flowers on a table? I mean, it's just incredible.
Very effective.
And then.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: So, Leigh, if you're looking at different buildings with different constraints, are there any particular issues with lighting spaces that have low ceilings and then conversely, high ceilings?
[00:15:36] Speaker C: Tackle those.
[00:15:37] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:15:38] Speaker C: Don't any attendants headbagging here? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
I think actually, when it's really low spaces, that's where architectural lighting really steps into the fore and making sure. And when you have really high ceilings, of course, you can go more dramatic with statement lighting. But I think when you have high ceilings, you have to really consider the layers. You have to have lighting at the top, in the middle, at the bottom, and all the different levels.
And I think that then becomes really important. Whereas when it's a smaller space, you can probably get away with like maybe missing one quite low. Yes, as well. Exactly.
[00:16:19] Speaker A: I'd like to go back to heritage properties now. You must face enormous challenges in some of those spaces. Not just the high ceilings, but also.
[00:16:28] Speaker D: Can'T touch the walls, can't touch the ceiling, touch the floor, can't touch anything, basically.
[00:16:33] Speaker A: Obviously you've got lots of experience in dealing with those sorts of situations. So. So what kind of ways do you overcome those constraints?
[00:16:43] Speaker D: Well, I mean, I like table lamps and I like picture lights. You know, there's nothing better than a, than a painting that's just a painting that is lit and that becomes also again a reflective light, a light source, but it sort of glows.
So you have to be a little bit more, you know, you have to work around the problem, really. But table lamps are lovely. Yeah. And reading standard lamps are lovely by chairs. And you know, I mean, we do.
So we do have a, always have a 5amp circuit everywhere. And I mean they're generally in the house anyway. So you just have to sort of adapt perhaps. But so that plus wall lights, which are generally already there, might have a slight problem with locations. But, you know, sometimes you just have to work around that. But yeah, I'm not, I don't use a huge amount of spotlights just simply because we generally can't touch the ceilings or I mean, I do new builds, a few.
So then we probably would, but it's not anymore that sort of grid of, you know, set of lights where everything is, you know, symmetric and whatever that you used to have at the beginning.
It's very strategic and very rarely used.
Sometimes it might be a pin spot onto a sculpture or something or it might be a specific light which has a cutout to just highlight the painting rather than the frame. So it really pops. So they might just be dotted around the ceiling where potentially we might have access or something. And so we try and write around it.
[00:18:30] Speaker A: And Lee, probably you sell lots of products that can help overcome.
[00:18:36] Speaker C: We do. I mean, there's there, I mean, there's so many different ways to approach lighting. And like you were saying about the spotlights, Henrietta, you can have directional spots that affixed to the ceiling so that they don't actually go into the ceiling that you're not allowed to touch. And Also, there are kinetic switches that a kinetic switch system that you can use.
And, and many people might know what a kinetic switch is, some people might not. So just to explain that a kinetic switch is where the energy comes from, actually the physical trigger of the switch, so the motion. So it's charged by motion, so it doesn't need any wiring. And you can stick a kinetic switch anywhere that you want to without rewiring, and it talks to a transmitter that can go into the ceiling rows or you can just hide it anywhere within a light. And so that gives you a lot of flexibility when you have a period property. It's really excellent.
So.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: So do you use those a lot?
[00:19:41] Speaker D: Yes. Yeah. Very useful. Yeah.
[00:19:43] Speaker A: Interesting.
[00:19:44] Speaker D: I mean, I think that's the thing.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: Is that there are so many retrofit. The LED has made it so much more flexible than it used to be.
[00:19:50] Speaker D: That's what I meant. You know, it's really, really evolved. And what's out there now, I mean, lots of people might not even know the latest, you know, kinetic switches and so on. That's why I think it's so important, you know, to keep yourself up to date a little bit, because it just gets better all the time.
[00:20:06] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:07] Speaker B: So then, conversely, having talked about period properties and some of the difficulties of cutting into lather and plaster ceilings and those things that you're not allowed to do, what about very contemporary buildings? Have you ever come across, either of you, a situation where perhaps an architect has designed something and hasn't considered the lighting, and therefore you're really then struggling to light, for example, a kitchen under an enormous glazed panel, how do you go about managing situations like that?
[00:20:36] Speaker C: I think, I think it's, it's, it. It's quite a. It doesn't necessarily need just happen on contemporary properties, but I think even if you inherit a house and the lighting is all in the wrong place for the way that you want to live and use it? It's, it's. It's such, it's such a challenge. And, And I think you. If you don't want to rewire the whole house, it's just a case of you get some very bright electricians that can kind of hook cables and when they get up, it doesn't actually need a massive amount of work. But things like switches and sockets, if they're in the wrong place, you might be able to hook cables and create new ones. So sometimes it's simple. And then if it really isn't, and if you just can't get access to where you need lighting, to be it's a case of either kinetic switch system.
[00:21:25] Speaker D: Or.
[00:21:27] Speaker C: The bulbs that can be rechargeable. I mean, sometimes it's so powered. Yeah, it's a great fix and a great invention.
[00:21:34] Speaker D: And sometimes thinking about different things that can be lit, like kitchen glazed kitchen cabinets, you know, things that you know are not your obvious, you know, saying you can, you can get light too easier if it's in a piece of furniture, if it's, you know. So I think if you think a little bit more creatively, you can probably make adjustments in a, in a way that will also work not just your standard ceiling fitting wall lights. What. So I think, you know, think a little bit outside the box and there'll be solutions these days.
[00:22:03] Speaker A: So before we continue, we would like to do a quick shout out to NaturalMat, the organic bed and mattress company based on the banks of the River X in Devon. If you're designing a space where wellness and sustainability matter, then this is a name to know. That's right, Suzy, isn't it?
[00:22:19] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Their beds and mattresses are handcrafted using natural organic materials.
No synthetics, no glues and zero harmful chemicals. Plus their organic wool fibres make them naturally fire retardant, so there's no need for chemical sprays.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: And they're also the first B Corp certified bed company in the uk. Solar powered workshop, Plastic free packaging and a brilliant bed and Mattress for Life initiative. Refurbish, recycle or donate. So nothing ends up in landfill.
[00:22:46] Speaker B: And their showrooms are total design inspiration.
Each one features a sleep zone with dim lighting, calming scents and even a bird song soundtrack recorded in the nature reserve by the Devon Workshop. So it's a sensory experience you and your clients will find inspirational.
[00:23:02] Speaker A: So natural mat, where sustainability meets sleep beautifully. You can learn
[email protected] or visit them in London, Knutsford, Devon or in the Cotswolds. And V. Lighting is often subdivided into three categories, general, task and accent.
Can you just explain those and are they useful for interior designers to understand?
[00:23:23] Speaker C: Yes, I think they're essential.
That's the layer of lighting.
So obviously it's lighting to support the function that you're doing. So you say, for example, you're in a kitchen and you might have spotlights with a really warm white sort of 2,700 Kelvin color temperature.
And that, that's, that's great for chopping as long as you've got great clarity, which is high CRI level. It's always confusing because it's called color render index. But it's nothing to do with color. So cri.
CRI is the extent to which artificial light represents natural daylight. So you know when you're in the clothes shop and you're trying on an outfit and you just want to see what the colour is like, so you take it to the window. So a really high level CRI, like level 100, is the equivalent to natural daylight. The highest bulbs that you can get is around 95 to 97, but that gives you a really great clarity so that you can see light clearly. It's also got lots of reports associated with it around mental health and reduction of eye strain. So you've got the color temperature to consider with task lighting and then the clarity of light.
But then as you go into the evening, you might want to change that color temperature to a really sunset, cozy kitchen, supper sort of vibe and mood. Again, warmer. Yeah, warm. Warm. Sort of. Sort of 1800 Kelvin temperature. And there are bulbs now that you can get that change that color. So by using a dimming toggle or switch, you can change it the Kelvin color temperature. So that's much more like the old.
[00:25:10] Speaker B: Incandescent lamps that, as you dimmed them, got warmer. Because that's what. Yes, that's what we all remember and miss from oed, which tends to just get both flat as you dim it.
[00:25:21] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:21] Speaker B: So this is, again, it's another really amazing product innovation.
[00:25:24] Speaker C: Yeah, it works beautifully for certain things. So, yes, that layering, you've got task and then you've got your different accents and I think it's really important.
I think you probably feel the same.
[00:25:37] Speaker D: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, definitely Very important. Because for different things you need different.
Different lights.
Yeah, just like different outfits for different occasions.
[00:25:47] Speaker B: I agree.
[00:25:48] Speaker D: So.
[00:25:49] Speaker C: So we.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: Lee, you were just chatting about accent lighting. Have you got any hints or tips for. For accent lighting? Sort of. Actually, Henrietta, you mentioned some of these very tiny, tiny little fittings that are now available and you've talked about the pin lighting, but I mean, what other sorts of things would you. Would you accent within an interior?
[00:26:12] Speaker C: Architectural features and anything that you really want to draw. I mean, some buildings have such a beautiful bone structure and so many gorgeous features that you want to bring up, but I think it's.
Yeah, I think. And then there might be artifacts or, you know, sculptures that you want to accent, but I think that's where the architectural lighting, that's just about lighting the feature rather than lighting the space.
Yes, thank you.
[00:26:46] Speaker B: And then I guess if you don't have the good architectural features, then maybe it would be things. I mean, you mentioned.
[00:26:52] Speaker D: But I mean, I often put them in. I often put these little ones in bookcases.
When you mix a few nice books and maybe a little bust or something, we just pop these little things in and you can easily have them at the back of the bookcase. And it just. And it's all about that, what I was saying earlier. It's all about creating that glow and the shadow and the contrast between it that creates the depth. And it really helps also in the book to create that depth in the bookcase.
It brings an interior alive.
And so that's what I think is essential. And if you can't do it with your architectural features, just do it with your favorite bits and pieces, you know, with a bust, with a special vase.
Yeah. Some flowers. Beautiful. Curtains are slightly different. Curtains need a wash, so it doesn't really work to sort of pin spot them. They sort of need to be evenly washed. So you need to make sure that when you're putting it in the ceiling, even if you don't see it, let's see if they're kind of.
You need to make sure you're the right distance away from it. And you need to make sure you have directional light so that you tilt them and they sort of gently wash so it becomes like a glow rather than too flat.
But it cannot be the main major source of the. Of the room. This is really only playing with sort of accents, and it needs to be the lowest of the.
Of the sort of packing order, if you know what I mean. But it is. Nothing is more uncomfortable than having a black, you know, curtain or window or something. So I think it needs considering, but it certainly is not more important than many, many other things. So.
[00:28:37] Speaker A: And Lee, we've talked a bit about shadow and light. Are there any rules designers can follow to look at how they're treating shadow and light? I think the Japanese recommend it as an aesthetic, don't they?
[00:28:50] Speaker C: Yeah, they do. They do. And that's all about. About spacing, like to allow the shadow to fall between the lights, because otherwise you just. If you color drench, it becomes really flat and you lose all of that drama and the ambiance. So, yes, it is. It's. It is a Japanese theory.
[00:29:06] Speaker A: So be brave about shadows. Don't see that you have to light everything and embrace it.
[00:29:10] Speaker D: Yeah, quite the opposite. Yeah.
[00:29:12] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:29:12] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:29:13] Speaker B: Lighting also plays on different levels and. And heavy. You've already talked about this, but how do you go about balancing. How do you go about the balancing act of high Mid and low level lighting in a space.
[00:29:27] Speaker D: It's a big one.
Yeah, I guess it is a balance. So that's, you know, that you're quite right there. So to get the balance right, I guess many things. It depends on many things. Size of the room, the amount of furniture, you know, the height, height of the ceiling, how many tall elements you've got, how many lower elements you've got.
I guess you just get better with doing it. I mean, that sounds a real cop out, but. But I think it is. It's just something you learn along the way.
And, you know, I know when something is not right. You know, sometimes you go to a restaurant and you go, oh, God, you know how, you know, how could I get it so wrong?
I couldn't necessarily pinpoint how they got it so wrong, but I know it's wrong, if you know what I mean, because it feels. Yeah, you feel it. And so I think it's all about how a room makes you feel when you walk into it at any time in the day, really.
And. And my best advice would be to keep it flexible. I think we. I talked about that earlier. Make sure that everything is on a dimmer. Make sure that you've got three or four different levels of light, so your picture lights and wall lights, your ceiling lights, your table, 5amp circuits, table lamps, whatever. So that you have the flexibility of, you know, going, oh, it's a great day today. I think I put my picture lights and my wall lights on and maybe, you know, the table, you know, so you can actually, you know, it gives you many, many more options. So like, and that's what.
[00:30:58] Speaker C: It's great where you can zone, isn't it?
[00:31:00] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:31:00] Speaker C: Because you can set it with the, with the right switches. You can. And circuits. And you can set it so that you have that, you know, ambience. Wel.
[00:31:10] Speaker D: Home, evening, supper, sunny day, gray day, you know, good mood, bad mood.
But that's the thing. You have infinite options. If you can switch everything separately and you can dim it, there's a too many combinations that you can do in that way you can find the right balance for you at that time for whatever task, for whatever you're doing in there, whether you're having a drinks party or, you know, doing your homework, it doesn't really, you know, it. You can then adjust it and get that balance right. And I think when. So I think everybody knows when the balance is right because we all walk into the spaces and go, lovely, you know.
[00:31:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:49] Speaker D: So, you know, personally, for yourself, that might be Very different to what I feel. Oh, lovely. Do you know what I mean? It just depends what mood you're in, what you're doing and that sort of thing. So keeping it flexible, having as many sources and having it all on the dimmer just gives you every opportunity to get it right.
[00:32:08] Speaker A: Understood. You talked earlier about architectural fittings, which are different to decorative fittings. Do you just want to clarify the differences?
[00:32:15] Speaker C: Yes.
Architectural lighting should just disappear and you really don't want it to be seen.
[00:32:22] Speaker A: Visible, embedded in the wall.
[00:32:24] Speaker C: Yeah. The source is invisible, but the output of light is very visible and sort of lights, the features and spaces. Whereas statement lighting is where the actual lighting itself is. Is the show. It's a pick me, pick me sort of light.
[00:32:42] Speaker A: Got it. So decorative or statement lighting, the two terms are kind of interchangeable.
[00:32:47] Speaker B: Got it.
[00:32:47] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:32:48] Speaker B: And then with architectural lighting, it's. It's often. Well, again, we've touched on this already, that the. The viewer should be aware of the light, but not the light source.
And you touched on this earlier, too. So this might be a bit of a redundant question, but architects used to, particularly architects used to describe. Apologies to any architects we won't have in the audience. We're famous for sort of putting serried racks of spotlights all over, you know, grids of lights.
[00:33:12] Speaker A: Electricians do that too.
[00:33:13] Speaker B: Yeah, architects or your electrician.
So in that context, is the arrangement of lights on a ceiling at all important or does it really not matter?
[00:33:24] Speaker D: Really doesn't matter. It's completely irrelevant, arbitrary. It's where you need it. Right. Yeah. And as little as possible, I would say, in the ceiling, for me. Yeah, that's my opinion. But, yeah, hotels are different.
[00:33:35] Speaker C: Yeah, of course. And I would be. And I think especially we do lots of hotel kitchen lighting plans and it becomes really important that the light is punched down over the workspace, but there are other spaces within that kitchen space that it doesn't need it. So I think that everybody's different with what they like, but I think definitely punching light down over the working countertop is key. And then it's up to you with the. With the rest.
[00:34:07] Speaker A: And it seems to me that there's so much choice, particularly in downlights these days. You've got tilted down lights, you've got plastering, you've got surface magic. The IP ratings are all different and. And it. Again, LED lights. There's a lot more versatility now coming through with LED lights and the color changing you can do with them. So, I mean, my God, how do you stay up to Date with it all.
[00:34:27] Speaker D: Well, you, you get yourself a great interior designer and a great lighting.
And I also think always asking all the questions is really, really good. If you're not sure where to start, you know, Lee, or you know, whoever's in the showroom will always be able to answer your questions and tell you, you know, for your kitchen, start with that to, you know. So just asking the questions I think is really important.
[00:34:52] Speaker B: But just to unpack it a bit further.
[00:34:53] Speaker C: Lee.
[00:34:54] Speaker B: So what constitutes the perfect spotlight? What should designers be looking for as features?
[00:34:58] Speaker C: Again, it depends on the purpose. It depends what you're, what you, what you're, you're looking for.
There's different sizes, spotlights that you know, if you've got a smaller spotlight, as Henriette was saying, it punches down a really strong light. A bigger spotlight will have a wash. You have aesthetic decisions. So for example, whether the spotlight is ingressed into the ceiling or whether you like a bezel, anti glare baffles and that sort of thing. Yes, yeah, exactly. If you have a deep bezel, anti glare tiltables important depending on where you want to direct the light.
IP ratings, always essential in a bathroom, in a kitchen. But yeah, there's so much choice, but it's choice for different purposes and function.
And yeah, we have a huge tech team that can talk all about that.
[00:35:49] Speaker B: We're finding or I'm hearing that some clients are sort of rediscovering the old fashioned joy of individually going around and turning on their table lamps. Does this mean that lighting control systems in domestic settings perhaps have had their day?
[00:36:02] Speaker D: Are they provocative?
[00:36:06] Speaker C: That's a great question. I mean, you know, lighting controls are. It just depends.
I think if we're talking about home automation, I think there are certain clients that absolutely love home automation. All of our products work with home automation and I think the key, the key thing with home automation is actually just making it really relevant to the client.
Only have settings and scenes that they want to use because sometimes it's so complex and you don't know what you're pressing and what light array is going to come on and off and then it just becomes frustrating.
But the other thing with home automation is it's very costly to set up and installate and to install.
I mean, we have a circuit that involves a zigbee module.
[00:37:02] Speaker A: It's wireless, isn't it? Zigbee?
[00:37:04] Speaker C: It's. Yeah, it basically is completely wireless and it's its own system. So it doesn't involve wi fi, but you would essentially we put a little Zigbee module in the back of certain switches and they all talk to each other. So you have all the functionality.
You can voice activate it, you can use it on a phone app, but you don't have any of that complex and costly home automation and it gives you the functions. So for example, if I'm leaving the house, I can just one swipe all lights off. When I'm coming home I can set the mode and can change the lighting outside of the home. So that functionality I personally really enjoy.
But it's no more complex than that for me.
[00:37:47] Speaker A: We've talked a bit about dimming and I think we shouldn't even ask the question to dim or not to dim. We need to dim.
But what about the different dimming protocols and what do they all mean? I'm not sure who choose.
[00:37:58] Speaker C: So residential. It's quite simple. Just, just have a trailing edge dimmer.
[00:38:03] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:38:04] Speaker C: Really?
[00:38:04] Speaker B: Really.
[00:38:05] Speaker C: Then we'll start when you get to commercial because it all depends on the scale and if you want a big scale then you'll want to use 00 to 10 volt dimming which. And what that enables you to do is to control many different circuits and have a lot more autonomy and control over the light. Light and when they come on it becomes really important with a commercial setting. And then there's Dali, which is dimming addressable lighting interface.
And thank you.
[00:38:36] Speaker D: And.
[00:38:36] Speaker C: And again it, it gives you real control over many different lights and can control all the different lights individually or as groups. And it becomes quite important for commercial. The four residential. Just ensure that the dimmer is as a small scale residential. I mean some residences are palaces but.
[00:38:54] Speaker D: You'Re, but you're lovely, you know, the switches. What's so great, I think is that you have your, you can engrave what is what. Which I think that is where the problem is in residential that you've got, you know, a whole bank of switches and you just go like, yeah, you know which one is for which. Exactly. And then you kind of. I mean I know which ones there, but my husband for example does not very clearly because I mean it's all over the place. And then there's one switch where it switches one thing off and if you have it off, the other switch doesn't work. I mean, obviously. But if it was labeled like and I love those, I definitely. Those are my favorite thing.
[00:39:30] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:39:31] Speaker D: And that makes it so easy because you know exactly what's. What it does. Great.
[00:39:35] Speaker C: That came about because in our kitchen we've got an eight gang and we lived there Seven years. I still didn't know which one did what. I was like, we've got to label these. So that. That's why we did that. A number.
[00:39:47] Speaker D: A number of years as. Thank you. Just a really nice touch.
[00:39:50] Speaker C: And actually on those dimming circuits as well, I think it's really important to have a multi way dimmer, which I just didn't mention, which means that you can dim from any point, which becomes really important.
[00:40:00] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:40:01] Speaker D: Yes. So there's problems with the old fashioned two way circuits.
[00:40:03] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:04] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:40:04] Speaker C: But you could only dim from one at the top of the stairs.
[00:40:07] Speaker D: This is the problem with my husband.
[00:40:09] Speaker B: There you go.
[00:40:12] Speaker D: Some way it gets dimmed off and then I try and switch it on and nothing happens. And you're like, not again.
But every day. Every day. I'm not kidding anyone. My poor husband still married. Yes. If we had you, I think swap it now.
[00:40:27] Speaker C: I think you do, Henrietta.
[00:40:28] Speaker D: Yes, that's it. That's it.
[00:40:29] Speaker C: Done.
[00:40:30] Speaker D: So, Lee, we were talking about the.
[00:40:32] Speaker B: Fact that sometimes people overuse these preset scenes and that nobody can remember what does what. And all they end up doing is turning the lights on and off, which seems a bit pointless.
Are there any rules for determining what lights should go on? What circuits? How do you.
[00:40:44] Speaker D: You.
[00:40:44] Speaker B: How do you divide them up?
[00:40:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I think. I think so.
I think you have your. Well, Henrietta's sort of alluded to it already in that you have your five amps, they should be on a circuit. Then you have your pendants and your wall lights. And then you might have architectural features. But I said. But I think it's. I think. And you don't need to just necessarily have circuits against rooms. It can be. So it could be for. And we're talking about line of sight. So it could be the circuits attached to your line of sight through the house. So you walk in and you want to put that. And it could connect to the garden as well. And you could have an evening setting, a welcome home evening. And it just sets the ambience for when you walk in. So I think it's thinking beyond a room and how the person uses the space is that old adage which comes right back full circle to that original.
[00:41:35] Speaker B: Taking of the brief.
[00:41:37] Speaker D: I would definitely also make sure that you keep your ceiling, anything that's on the ceiling separate from anything that's on the wall. No ways.
And I mean I sometimes connect. If I don't have. If I can't have that many circuits or whatever. I sometimes connect my picture lights with the wall lights.
But if I cannot do that. That would be even better because then you can, you know, again, going back to the multiple options that you've got, then you can combine it so that you get it just perfect for that particular setting. So. So. But, yeah, definitely keep the ceiling ones from the wall lights, for sure.
[00:42:10] Speaker A: Fantastic. Okay, final question.
One piece of advice for interior designers in how to approach lighting and lighting design on their projects. What would it be? I mean, have you got an answer?
[00:42:20] Speaker C: Definitely, but I'm going to pinch Henrietta's. Always have everything on a dimmer. Always have everything on a dimmer.
[00:42:26] Speaker D: Yeah. And be interested, I guess, in the. In the latest developments of lighting and kind of inform yourself really, really well and. And experience lighting consciously. You know, when you walk into a space, make sure you understand, you know, if it's a space that feels good, look around, check it out, see what's there, see how many levels see, you know, just really find out what it is that makes a good ambience in a space, and then you can sort of recreate it, really, I think.
[00:42:57] Speaker A: Great advice. Thank you. Let's have a round of applause for our guests.
[00:43:04] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:43:06] Speaker B: Lee and Henriette. Thank you so much. That was incredibly insightful, and I've learned loads, so thank you very much.
[00:43:12] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:43:13] Speaker A: Yeah, great insights and thank you. Also our live audience and our hosts, Simpsons. Our hosts, and also Soho Writing, who have a lovely area over there that I'm sure Lee would love to take you all through. Okay.
We do hope you've enjoyed this episode and please do get back to us on our social channels. Nterior design business COD to share any feedback. You can watch us on YouTube or listen to us on podcasts anywhere. The interior design business is a Wildwood plus production. Thank you.
